b. June Qtr
Emma first appears in records m the 1841 census for Price Street in the district of St. Mary's. This census was taken in June 1841. I found this entry on 1841, Birmingham 4+, HO 107/1143 for House 2, Court 15, Price St. (Price Street seems to have run between Loveday St. and Lancaster Street more or less where St. Chad's Ringway now runs at the back of the Dental Hospital. St.Mary's Church was built as an annexe of St. Martin's from l779 onwards: elegant Georgian terraces once surrounded it. It became a Parish C'hurch in the 1830s but fell into decline and was eventually demolished. Price Street did not contain elegant Georgian houses but rather the smelly, insanitary courts ol back-to-back houses inhabited by the working classes of old Birmingham. In 1835 Price Street was on the northernmost edge of Birmingham.
1841, court 15, House 2. Price St.
William SHORT (Head), aged 40, Iron Caster, born Warwickshire
Mary Ann SHORT(Wife), aged 40 born outside the county.
Eliza SHORT (daughter), aged 15, born Warwickshire
Thomas SHORT (son), aged 15, born Warwickshire,
William SHORT(son), aged 10, born Warwickshire
Mary SHORT (daughter), aged 10, born Warwickshire
Emma SHORT (daughter), aged 6, born Warwickshire
James SHORT(son), aged 3, born Warwickshire
John SHORT (son), aged 1, born WarwickshireThis census was taken in April of 1851.
Census Ref. Aston, Duddeston. 2061.714/26
Bloomsbury St. (no number given)
Head, William SHORT, aged 50, Iron Cutter, born Birmingham Warwickshire
Wife, Mary SHORT, aged 52, born Scotland
Son, James SHORT, aged 13, Iron Cutter, born Birmingham, Warwickshire
Son, John, aged 11, Scholar, born Birmingham Warwickshire.1861 Cen. Living with widowed father at 45 Sheep St, Birmingham St Peter. Occupation: Iron Caster - unmarried
1871 Cen. living at 45 Sheep St in Aston, Birmingham with first wife ; children John Henry, William, Alice, Emma & Lizzie. John’s occupation: Iron Caster
KF 1881 census
45 Sheep St, Birmingham, Warwick, England
PRO RG11 Piece/Folio 2990/116 Page 30
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
John SHORT Head M Male 40 Bham, Warwick, England Iron Foundriesman
John SHORT Son U Male 18 Bham, Warwick, England Caster
William SHORT Son U Male 16 Birmingham, Warwick, England Iron Caster
Agnes SHORT Wife M Female 30 Birmingham, Warwick, England Housewife
Alice SHORT Daughter U Female 15 Birmingham, Warwick, England General Help
Emma SHORT Daughter U Female 14 Birmingham, Warwick, England General Servant
Lizzie SHORT Daughter U Female 12 Birmingham, Warwick, England Scholar
Ellen SHORT Daughter U Female 9 Birmingham, Warwick, England Scholar
Charlotte SHORT Daughter U Female 7 Birmingham, Warwick, England Scholar
Agnes F. SHORT Daughter U Female 1 Birmingham, Warwick, England
1881 Cen. 45 Sheep St in Aston, Birmingham. Living with his second wife: children by first marriage, John Henry, William, Alice, Emma, Lizzie, Ellen & Charlotte; and daughter Agnes Florence by second marriage. Daughter Maud by second marriage is not present and has been found at the home of William SHORT.1891 Cen. At 60 ?Cluster? Road, Handsworth (St John), Staffordshire with second wife; child by first marriage, William - aged 28, Occ: Carter; children by second marriage, Maud, Agnes Florence shown as ‘Florence’, Bertie George, Elsie Gertrude May, Daisy May, Ralph Victor & Violet Beatrice. John’s occupation: Retired Iron Founder
1901 Cen. Living 68 Carlisle Road, Rotton Park, (St Cuthberts) Birmingham with second wife and their children: Agnes Florence, Bertie George, Elsie Gertrude May, Daisy May, Ralph Victor & Violet Beatrice
KF 1881 census
45 Sheep St, Birmingham, Warwick, England
PRO RG11 Piece/Folio 2990/116 Page 30
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
John SHORT Head M Male 40 Bham, Warwick, England Iron Foundriesman
John SHORT Son U Male 18 Bham, Warwick, England Caster
William SHORT Son U Male 16 Birmingham, Warwick, England Iron Caster
Agnes SHORT Wife M Female 30 Birmingham, Warwick, England Housewife
Alice SHORT Daughter U Female 15 Birmingham, Warwick, England General Help
Emma SHORT Daughter U Female 14 Birmingham, Warwick, England General Servant
Lizzie SHORT Daughter U Female 12 Birmingham, Warwick, England Scholar
Ellen SHORT Daughter U Female 9 Birmingham, Warwick, England Scholar
Charlotte SHORT Daughter U Female 7 Birmingham, Warwick, England Scholar
Agnes F. SHORT Daughter U Female 1 Birmingham, Warwick, England1891 Cen. At 60 Cluster Road, Handsworth (St John), Staffordshire with husband - Retired Iron Founder; husband’s child by first marriage, William - aged 28, Occ: Carter; children Maud, Agnes Florence shown as ‘Florence’, Bertie George, Elsie Gertrude May, Daisy May, Ralph Victor & Violet Beatrice.
1901 Cen. Living 68 Carlisle Street, Rotton Park, (St Cuthbert’s) Birmingham with husband - : Malleable Iron Caster; their children: Agnes Florence, Bertie George, Elsie Gertrude May, Daisy May, Ralph Victor & Violet Beatrice.
email from Mike Short 8.4.2006
1871 Cen. living at 45 Sheep St in Aston, Birmingham with first wife ; children John Henry, William, Alice, Emma & Lizzie. John’s occupation: Iron CasterKF 1881 census
45 Sheep St, Birmingham, Warwick, England
PRO RG11 Piece/Folio 2990/116 Page 30
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
John SHORT Head M Male 40 Bham, Warwick, England Iron Foundriesman
John SHORT Son U Male 18 Bham, Warwick, England Caster
William SHORT Son U Male 16 Birmingham, Warwick, England Iron Caster
Agnes SHORT Wife M Female 30 Birmingham, Warwick, England Housewife
Alice SHORT Daughter U Female 15 Birmingham, Warwick, England General Help
Emma SHORT Daughter U Female 14 Birmingham, Warwick, England General Servant
Lizzie SHORT Daughter U Female 12 Birmingham, Warwick, England Scholar
Ellen SHORT Daughter U Female 9 Birmingham, Warwick, England Scholar
Charlotte SHORT Daughter U Female 7 Birmingham, Warwick, England Scholar
Agnes F. SHORT Daughter U Female 1 Birmingham, Warwick, England
email from Mike Short 8.4.2006
1871 Cen. living at 45 Sheep St in Aston, Birmingham with first wife ; children John Henry, William, Alice, Emma & Lizzie. John’s occupation: Iron CasterKF 1881 census
45 Sheep St, Birmingham, Warwick, England
PRO RG11 Piece/Folio 2990/116 Page 30
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
John SHORT Head M Male 40 Bham, Warwick, England Iron Foundriesman
John SHORT Son U Male 18 Bham, Warwick, England Caster
William SHORT Son U Male 16 Birmingham, Warwick, England Iron Caster
Agnes SHORT Wife M Female 30 Birmingham, Warwick, England Housewife
Alice SHORT Daughter U Female 15 Birmingham, Warwick, England General Help
Emma SHORT Daughter U Female 14 Birmingham, Warwick, England General Servant
Lizzie SHORT Daughter U Female 12 Birmingham, Warwick, England Scholar
Ellen SHORT Daughter U Female 9 Birmingham, Warwick, England Scholar
Charlotte SHORT Daughter U Female 7 Birmingham, Warwick, England Scholar
Agnes F. SHORT Daughter U Female 1 Birmingham, Warwick, England1891 cen. living 60 Cluster Road, Birmingham, with father and stepmother. Occupation: Caster.
1901 Cen. boarding at 'Golden Lion' public house 46 Legge Street, Bishop's Ryder, Aston, Birmingham. Occupation: Cab driver. At the ‘Golden Lion’ is William’s sister, Emma SHORT, her husband William BEACH - Chandelier Maker & Public House Manager, and their 3 children (but see Census problem under sister Emma’s entry)
1881 Cen. 45 Sheep St in Aston, Birmingham. Living with his second wife: children by first marriage, John Henry, William, Alice, Emma, Lizzie, Ellen & Charlotte; and daughter Agnes Florence by second marriage. Daughter Maud by second marriage is not present and has been found at the home of SH3.9.1 William SHORT.
KF 1881 census
45 Sheep St, Birmingham, Warwick, England
PRO RG11 Piece/Folio 2990/116 Page 30
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
John SHORT Head M Male 40 Bham, Warwick, England Iron Foundriesman
John SHORT Son U Male 18 Bham, Warwick, England Caster
William SHORT Son U Male 16 Birmingham, Warwick, England Iron Caster
Agnes SHORT Wife M Female 30 Birmingham, Warwick, England Housewife
Alice SHORT Daughter U Female 15 Birmingham, Warwick, England General Help
Emma SHORT Daughter U Female 14 Birmingham, Warwick, England General Servant
Lizzie SHORT Daughter U Female 12 Birmingham, Warwick, England Scholar
Ellen SHORT Daughter U Female 9 Birmingham, Warwick, England Scholar
Charlotte SHORT Daughter U Female 7 Birmingham, Warwick, England Scholar
Agnes F. SHORT Daughter U Female 1 Birmingham, Warwick, Englandemail from Mike Short 8.4.2006
A researcher believes this could be Charlotte Louisa SHORT who
m. June Q 1895 SH4.1A.8A.7S Lawrence Ernest HULIN b. 1870, d. 1896, Birmingham. This could also be the Charlotte SHORT living and working at ‘The Coldfield’ (Park Tavern) Sutton Coldfield in 1891 and/or the Charlotte Louisa HULIN who m. in 1897 but there are age discrepancies and no firm corroboration. Birth and m. certs. should be obtained to establish correct person.
email from Mike Short 8.4.2006
Cen. 1881 Living at SH3.9A.1 William SHORT’s (son of Helen/Ellen SHORT) house at 4 Bedfod Road, Aston1891 Cen. At 60 ?Cluster? Road, Handsworth (St John), Staffordshire with second wife; child by first marriage, William - aged 28, Occ: Carter; children by second marriage, Maud, Agnes Florence shown as ‘Florence’, Bertie George, Elsie Gertrude May, Daisy May, Ralph Victor & Violet Beatrice. John’s occupation: Retired Iron Founder
1881 Cen. 45 Sheep St in Aston, Birmingham. Living with his second wife: children by first marriage, John Henry, William, Alice, Emma, Lizzie, Ellen & Charlotte; and daughter Agnes Florence by second marriage. Daughter Maud by second marriage is not present and has been found at the home of SH3.9.1 William SHORT.
KF 1881 census
45 Sheep St, Birmingham, Warwick, England
PRO RG11 Piece/Folio 2990/116 Page 30
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
John SHORT Head M Male 40 Bham, Warwick, England Iron Foundriesman
John SHORT Son U Male 18 Bham, Warwick, England Caster
William SHORT Son U Male 16 Birmingham, Warwick, England Iron Caster
Agnes SHORT Wife M Female 30 Birmingham, Warwick, England Housewife
Alice SHORT Daughter U Female 15 Birmingham, Warwick, England General Help
Emma SHORT Daughter U Female 14 Birmingham, Warwick, England General Servant
Lizzie SHORT Daughter U Female 12 Birmingham, Warwick, England Scholar
Ellen SHORT Daughter U Female 9 Birmingham, Warwick, England Scholar
Charlotte SHORT Daughter U Female 7 Birmingham, Warwick, England Scholar
Agnes F. SHORT Daughter U Female 1 Birmingham, Warwick, England1891 Cen. living 60 Cluster Road, Birmingham with parents.
1901 Cen. Living 68 Carlisle Street, Rotton Park, (St Cuthberts) Birmingham with parents. Occupation: Tailoress
Note: m. reg Agnes Florence SHORT Sep Q 1901 West Bromwich 6b 1314 - possible husbands William Howard FOSTER or Harry Thomas BARLOW
1891 Cen. At 60 ?Cluster? Road, Handsworth (St John), Staffordshire with second wife; child by first marriage, William - aged 28, Occ: Carter; children by second marriage, Maud, Agnes Florence shown as ‘Florence’, Bertie George, Elsie Gertrude May, Daisy May, Ralph Victor & Violet Beatrice. John’s occupation: Retired Iron Founder
1901 Cen. Living 68 Carlisle Street, Rotton Park, (St Cuthberts) Birmingham with parents. Occupation: Toolmaker
1891 Cen. At 60 ?Cluster? Road, Handsworth (St John), Staffordshire with second wife; child by first marriage, William - aged 28, Occ: Carter; children by second marriage, Maud, Agnes Florence shown as ‘Florence’, Bertie George, Elsie Gertrude May, Daisy May, Ralph Victor & Violet Beatrice. John’s occupation: Retired Iron Founder
1901 Cen. Living 68 Carlisle Street, Rotton Park, (St Cuthberts) Birmingham with parents. Occupation: Fancy chain maker, gold.
1913 witness to brother Ralph Victor SHORT’s marriage
1891 Cen. At 60 ?Cluster? Road, Handsworth (St John), Staffordshire with second wife; child by first marriage, William - aged 28, Occ: Carter; children by second marriage, Maud, Agnes Florence shown as ‘Florence’, Bertie George, Elsie Gertrude May, Daisy May, Ralph Victor & Violet Beatrice. John’s occupation: Retired Iron Founder
1901 Cen. Living 68 Carlisle Street, Rotton Park, (St Cuthberts) Birmingham with parents. Occupation: Jeweller
1891 Cen. At 60 ?Cluster? Road, Handsworth (St John), Staffordshire with second wife; child by first marriage, William - aged 28, Occ: Carter; children by second marriage, Maud, Agnes Florence shown as ‘Florence’, Bertie George, Elsie Gertrude May, Daisy May, Ralph Victor & Violet Beatrice. John’s occupation: Retired Iron Founder
email from Mike Short 8.4.2006
1901 Cen. Living 68 Carlisle Street, Rotton Park, (St Cuthberts) Birmingham with parents
b. June Qtr
Emma first appears in records m the 1841 census for Price Street in the district of St. Mary's. This census was taken in June 1841. I found this entry on 1841, Birmingham 4+, HO 107/1143 for House 2, Court 15, Price St. (Price Street seems to have run between Loveday St. and Lancaster Street more or less where St. Chad's Ringway now runs at the back of the Dental Hospital. St.Mary's Church was built as an annexe of St. Martin's from l779 onwards: elegant Georgian terraces once surrounded it. It became a Parish C'hurch in the 1830s but fell into decline and was eventually demolished. Price Street did not contain elegant Georgian houses but rather the smelly, insanitary courts ol back-to-back houses inhabited by the working classes of old Birmingham. In 1835 Price Street was on the northernmost edge of Birmingham.
1841, court 15, House 2. Price St.
William SHORT (Head), aged 40, Iron Caster, born Warwickshire
Mary Ann SHORT(Wife), aged 40 born outside the county.
Eliza SHORT (daughter), aged 15, born Warwickshire
Thomas SHORT (son), aged 15, born Warwickshire,
William SHORT(son), aged 10, born Warwickshire
Mary SHORT (daughter), aged 10, born Warwickshire
Emma SHORT (daughter), aged 6, born Warwickshire
James SHORT(son), aged 3, born Warwickshire
John SHORT (son), aged 1, born WarwickshireThis census was taken in April of 1851.
Census Ref. Aston, Duddeston. 2061.714/26
Bloomsbury St. (no number given)
Head, William SHORT, aged 50, Iron Cutter, born Birmingham Warwickshire
Wife, Mary SHORT, aged 52, born Scotland
Son, James SHORT, aged 13, Iron Cutter, born Birmingham, Warwickshire
Son, John, aged 11, Scholar, born Birmingham Warwickshire.1861 Cen. Living with widowed father at 45 Sheep St, Birmingham St Peter. Occupation: Iron Caster - unmarried
1871 Cen. living at 45 Sheep St in Aston, Birmingham with first wife ; children John Henry, William, Alice, Emma & Lizzie. John’s occupation: Iron Caster
KF 1881 census
45 Sheep St, Birmingham, Warwick, England
PRO RG11 Piece/Folio 2990/116 Page 30
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
John SHORT Head M Male 40 Bham, Warwick, England Iron Foundriesman
John SHORT Son U Male 18 Bham, Warwick, England Caster
William SHORT Son U Male 16 Birmingham, Warwick, England Iron Caster
Agnes SHORT Wife M Female 30 Birmingham, Warwick, England Housewife
Alice SHORT Daughter U Female 15 Birmingham, Warwick, England General Help
Emma SHORT Daughter U Female 14 Birmingham, Warwick, England General Servant
Lizzie SHORT Daughter U Female 12 Birmingham, Warwick, England Scholar
Ellen SHORT Daughter U Female 9 Birmingham, Warwick, England Scholar
Charlotte SHORT Daughter U Female 7 Birmingham, Warwick, England Scholar
Agnes F. SHORT Daughter U Female 1 Birmingham, Warwick, England
1881 Cen. 45 Sheep St in Aston, Birmingham. Living with his second wife: children by first marriage, John Henry, William, Alice, Emma, Lizzie, Ellen & Charlotte; and daughter Agnes Florence by second marriage. Daughter Maud by second marriage is not present and has been found at the home of William SHORT.1891 Cen. At 60 ?Cluster? Road, Handsworth (St John), Staffordshire with second wife; child by first marriage, William - aged 28, Occ: Carter; children by second marriage, Maud, Agnes Florence shown as ‘Florence’, Bertie George, Elsie Gertrude May, Daisy May, Ralph Victor & Violet Beatrice. John’s occupation: Retired Iron Founder
1901 Cen. Living 68 Carlisle Road, Rotton Park, (St Cuthberts) Birmingham with second wife and their children: Agnes Florence, Bertie George, Elsie Gertrude May, Daisy May, Ralph Victor & Violet Beatrice
From Mike Short 8.4.2006
John Short married Charlotte TALBOT/TALBUTcensus
1871 Cen. living at 45 Sheep St in Aston, Birmingham with first wife ; children John Henry, William, Alice, Emma & Lizzie. John’s occupation: Iron Caster
email from Mike Short 8.4.2006
1871 Cen. living at 45 Sheep St in Aston, Birmingham with first wife ; children John Henry, William, Alice, Emma & Lizzie. John’s occupation: Iron CasterKF 1881 census
45 Sheep St, Birmingham, Warwick, England
PRO RG11 Piece/Folio 2990/116 Page 30
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
John SHORT Head M Male 40 Bham, Warwick, England Iron Foundriesman
John SHORT Son U Male 18 Bham, Warwick, England Caster
William SHORT Son U Male 16 Birmingham, Warwick, England Iron Caster
Agnes SHORT Wife M Female 30 Birmingham, Warwick, England Housewife
Alice SHORT Daughter U Female 15 Birmingham, Warwick, England General Help
Emma SHORT Daughter U Female 14 Birmingham, Warwick, England General Servant
Lizzie SHORT Daughter U Female 12 Birmingham, Warwick, England Scholar
Ellen SHORT Daughter U Female 9 Birmingham, Warwick, England Scholar
Charlotte SHORT Daughter U Female 7 Birmingham, Warwick, England Scholar
Agnes F. SHORT Daughter U Female 1 Birmingham, Warwick, England
email from Mike Short 8.4.2006
1871 Cen. living at 45 Sheep St in Aston, Birmingham with first wife ; children John Henry, William, Alice, Emma & Lizzie. John’s occupation: Iron CasterKF 1881 census
45 Sheep St, Birmingham, Warwick, England
PRO RG11 Piece/Folio 2990/116 Page 30
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
John SHORT Head M Male 40 Bham, Warwick, England Iron Foundriesman
John SHORT Son U Male 18 Bham, Warwick, England Caster
William SHORT Son U Male 16 Birmingham, Warwick, England Iron Caster
Agnes SHORT Wife M Female 30 Birmingham, Warwick, England Housewife
Alice SHORT Daughter U Female 15 Birmingham, Warwick, England General Help
Emma SHORT Daughter U Female 14 Birmingham, Warwick, England General Servant
Lizzie SHORT Daughter U Female 12 Birmingham, Warwick, England Scholar
Ellen SHORT Daughter U Female 9 Birmingham, Warwick, England Scholar
Charlotte SHORT Daughter U Female 7 Birmingham, Warwick, England Scholar
Agnes F. SHORT Daughter U Female 1 Birmingham, Warwick, England1891 cen. living 60 Cluster Road, Birmingham, with father and stepmother. Occupation: Caster.
1901 Cen. boarding at 'Golden Lion' public house 46 Legge Street, Bishop's Ryder, Aston, Birmingham. Occupation: Cab driver. At the ‘Golden Lion’ is William’s sister, Emma SHORT, her husband William BEACH - Chandelier Maker & Public House Manager, and their 3 children (but see Census problem under sister Emma’s entry)
1881 Cen. 45 Sheep St in Aston, Birmingham. Living with his second wife: children by first marriage, John Henry, William, Alice, Emma, Lizzie, Ellen & Charlotte; and daughter Agnes Florence by second marriage. Daughter Maud by second marriage is not present and has been found at the home of SH3.9.1 William SHORT.
KF 1881 census
45 Sheep St, Birmingham, Warwick, England
PRO RG11 Piece/Folio 2990/116 Page 30
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
John SHORT Head M Male 40 Bham, Warwick, England Iron Foundriesman
John SHORT Son U Male 18 Bham, Warwick, England Caster
William SHORT Son U Male 16 Birmingham, Warwick, England Iron Caster
Agnes SHORT Wife M Female 30 Birmingham, Warwick, England Housewife
Alice SHORT Daughter U Female 15 Birmingham, Warwick, England General Help
Emma SHORT Daughter U Female 14 Birmingham, Warwick, England General Servant
Lizzie SHORT Daughter U Female 12 Birmingham, Warwick, England Scholar
Ellen SHORT Daughter U Female 9 Birmingham, Warwick, England Scholar
Charlotte SHORT Daughter U Female 7 Birmingham, Warwick, England Scholar
Agnes F. SHORT Daughter U Female 1 Birmingham, Warwick, Englandemail from Mike Short 8.4.2006
A researcher believes this could be Charlotte Louisa SHORT who
m. June Q 1895 SH4.1A.8A.7S Lawrence Ernest HULIN b. 1870, d. 1896, Birmingham. This could also be the Charlotte SHORT living and working at ‘The Coldfield’ (Park Tavern) Sutton Coldfield in 1891 and/or the Charlotte Louisa HULIN who m. in 1897 but there are age discrepancies and no firm corroboration. Birth and m. certs. should be obtained to establish correct person.
Fanny Elizabeth SUTTON has been described by SHORT descendants as a larger than life character who liked rich men and wore lots of gold and jewellery. She was known for throwing her house open on Sundays to the whole family and expected all the children and grandchildren for Sunday dinner. Her houses were much bigger than most with better facilities and the grandchildren were expected to have their weekly bath at her house. There have been at least three reports from her grandchildren, and their cousins too, who remembered regularly playing at the house and having a really good time.
Post 1901, after the death of James Dempster SHORT, Fanny Elizabeth SUTTON remarried Sep Q 1909 6d 147 Joseph CARTER. Fanny known to kept ‘The Horse & Jockey’ public house and later ‘The Cup’, both in Sutton Coldfield.
1861 Cen. Birmingham St George, with parents at 107 ?King? John Street,
KF 1881 census
Mount Pleasant, Aston, Warwick, England
PRO Ref RG11 Piece/Folio 3048/93 Page 12
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
James D. SHORT Head M Male 43 Aston, Warwick, England Iron Founder
Fanney E. SHORT Wife M Female 26 Bham, Warwick, England
Charlotte L. SHORT Daughter Female 22 Bham, Warwick, England
James W. SHORT Son Male 20 Bham, Warwick, England Iron Caster
Mary A. SHORT Daughter Female 18 Bham, Warwick, England Pupil Teacher
Albert SHORT Son Male 3 Stechford, Warwick, England
Florrie SHORT Daughter Female 2 Washwood Heath, Warwick, England
Earnest D. SHORT Son Male 3 m Washwood Heath, Warwick, England
Jennie NICHOLAS Visitor Female 21 Pershore, Worcester, England1891 Cen. Living 366 New John St, St Georges parish, Birmingham with second wife; children of first wife Charlotte Louisa & James William - caster; children of second wife Albert, Fanny Florence, Ernest, Percival, Alfred Leonard & Ethel; also two domestic servants. James Dempster’s occupation: Licensed Victualler public house
1901 Cen. Living Aston Tavern, 10 Aston Road, Aston Manor with wife; child by first wife Charlotte Louisa - barmaid; children by second marriage Albert - musician, Fanny Florence - barmaid, Ernest Dempster - Clerk ?Brewery?, Percival - railway clerk, Ethel, Harold, Victor James & Howard; also present servant-nursemaid aged 12
Fanny was known to kept ‘The Horse & Jockey’ public house and later ‘The Cup’, both in Sutton Coldfield but I am not sure whether these two pubs were kept during, or after, the lifetime of husband James
email from Virginia Stokes 28/12/2004 gave middle name
b March Qtr 1838 Aston Vol 16 Pg 173 (probable)
Emma first appears in records m the 1841 census for Price Street in the district of St. Mary's. This census was taken in June 1841. I found this entry on 1841, Birmingham 4+, HO 107/1143 for House 2, Court 15, Price St. (Price Street seems to have run between Loveday St. and Lancaster Street more or less where St. Chad's Ringway now runs at the back of the Dental Hospital. St.Mary's Church was built as an annexe of St. Martin's from l779 onwards: elegant Georgian terraces once surrounded it. It became a Parish C'hurch in the 1830s but fell into decline and was eventually demolished. Price Street did not contain elegant Georgian houses but rather the smelly, insanitary courts ol back-to-back houses inhabited by the working classes of old Birmingham. In 1835 Price Street was on the northernmost edge of Birmingham.
1841, court 15, House 2. Price St.
William SHORT (Head), aged 40, Iron Caster, born Warwickshire
Mary Ann SHORT(Wife), aged 40 born outside the county.
Eliza SHORT (daughter), aged 15, born Warwickshire
Thomas SHORT (son), aged 15, born Warwickshire,
William SHORT(son), aged 10, born Warwickshire
Mary SHORT (daughter), aged 10, born Warwickshire
Emma SHORT (daughter), aged 6, born Warwickshire
James SHORT(son), aged 3, born Warwickshire
John SHORT (son), aged 1, born WarwickshireThis census was taken in April of 1851.
Census Ref. Aston, Duddeston. 2061.714/26
Bloomsbury St. (no number given)
Head, William SHORT, aged 50, Iron Cutter, born Birmingham Warwickshire
Wife, Mary SHORT, aged 52, born Scotland
Son, James SHORT, aged 13, Iron Cutter, born Birmingham, Warwickshire
Son, John, aged 11, Scholar, born Birmingham Warwickshire.1861 Cen. Living Back of 174 Great Lister Street, Duddeston & Nechells, Aston, Birmingham with wife; children Charlotte Louisa & James William. James’s occupation: Iron caster
1871 Cen. Living Back of 174 Great Lister Street, Duddeston cum Nechells, Aston, Birmingham, with children Charlotte, James Dempster & Mary Ann; also present visitor Eliza CALLAGHAN aged 24 occupation: gunstock ……
Mount Pleasant, Aston, Warwick, England
PRO Ref RG11 Piece/Folio 3048/93 Page 12
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
James D. SHORT Head M Male 43 Aston, Warwick, England Iron Founder
Fanney E. SHORT Wife M Female 26 Bham, Warwick, England
Charlotte L. SHORT Daughter Female 22 Bham, Warwick, England
James W. SHORT Son Male 20 Bham, Warwick, England Iron Caster
Mary A. SHORT Daughter Female 18 Bham, Warwick, England Pupil Teacher
Albert SHORT Son Male 3 Stechford, Warwick, England
Florrie SHORT Daughter Female 2 Washwood Heath, Warwick, England
Earnest D. SHORT Son Male 3 m Washwood Heath, Warwick, England
Jennie NICHOLAS Visitor Female 21 Pershore, Worcester, England1891 Cen. Living 366 New John St, St Georges parish, Birmingham with second wife; children of first wife Charlotte Louisa & James William - caster; children of second wife Albert, Fanny Florence, Ernest, Percival, Alfred Leonard & Ethel; also two domestic servants. James Dempster’s occupation: Licensed Victualler public house
1901 Cen. Living Aston Tavern, 10 Aston Road, Aston Manor with wife; child by first wife Charlotte Louisa - barmaid; children by second marriage Albert - musician, Fanny Florence - barmaid, Ernest Dempster - Clerk ?Brewery?, Percival - railway clerk, Ethel, Harold, Victor James & Howard; also present servant-nursemaid aged 12
Post 1901, after the death of James Dempster SHORT, Fanny Elizabeth SUTTON remarried Sep Q 1909 6d 147 Joseph CARTER. Fanny known to kept ‘The Horse & Jockey’ public house and later ‘The Cup’, both in Sutton Coldfield.
census details from Mike Short 8.4.2006
1851 Cen. Living 9 Court 4 Little Hampton Street, Birmingham St George Parish at the home of her Uncle Edward HYDE, Brass Founder, b.1795 Birmingham & his wife Mary b. 1795 ‘ somewhere in Wiltshire’1861 Cen. Living Back of 174 Great Lister Street, Duddeston & Nechells, Aston, Birmingham with wife; children Charlotte Louisa & James William. James’s occupation: Iron caster
census
1861 Cen. Living Back of 174 Great Lister Street, Duddeston & Nechells, Aston, Birmingham with parents
1871 Cen. Living Back of 174 Great Lister Street, Duddeston & Nechells, Aston, Birmingham, with widowed fatherKF's 1881 census details
Mount Pleasant, Aston, Warwick, England
PRO Ref RG11 Piece/Folio 3048/93 Page 12
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
James D. SHORT Head M Male 43 Aston, Warwick, England Iron Founder
Fanney E. SHORT Wife M Female 26 Bham, Warwick, England
Charlotte L. SHORT Daughter Female 22 Bham, Warwick, England
James W. SHORT Son Male 20 Bham, Warwick, England Iron Caster
Mary A. SHORT Daughter Female 18 Bham, Warwick, England Pupil Teacher
Albert SHORT Son Male 3 Stechford, Warwick, England
Florrie SHORT Daughter Female 2 Washwood Heath, Warwick, England
Earnest D. SHORT Son Male 3 m Washwood Heath, Warwick, England
Jennie NICHOLAS Visitor Female 21 Pershore, Worcester, England1891 Cen. Living 366 New John St, St Georges parish, Birmingham with second wife; children of first wife Charlotte Louisa & James William - caster; children of second wife Albert, Fanny Florence, Ernest, Percival, Alfred Leonard & Ethel; also two domestic servants. James Dempster’s occupation: Licensed Victualler public house
1901 Cen. Living Aston Tavern, 10 Aston Road, Aston Manor with wife; child by first wife Charlotte Louisa - barmaid; children by second marriage Albert - musician, Fanny Florence - barmaid, Ernest Dempster - Clerk ?Brewery?, Percival - railway clerk, Ethel, Harold, Victor James & Howard; also present servant-nursemaid aged 12
1861 Cen. Living Back of 174 Great Lister Street, Duddeston & Nechells, Aston, Birmingham with parents
1871 Cen. . Living Back of 174 Great Lister Street, Duddeston & Nechells, Aston, Birmingham, with widowed father.KF's 1881 census details
Mount Pleasant, Aston, Warwick, England
PRO Ref RG11 Piece/Folio 3048/93 Page 12
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
James D. SHORT Head M Male 43 Aston, Warwick, England Iron Founder
Fanney E. SHORT Wife M Female 26 Bham, Warwick, England
Charlotte L. SHORT Daughter Female 22 Bham, Warwick, England
James W. SHORT Son Male 20 Bham, Warwick, England Iron Caster
Mary A. SHORT Daughter Female 18 Bham, Warwick, England Pupil Teacher
Albert SHORT Son Male 3 Stechford, Warwick, England
Florrie SHORT Daughter Female 2 Washwood Heath, Warwick, England
Earnest D. SHORT Son Male 3 m Washwood Heath, Warwick, England
Jennie NICHOLAS Visitor Female 21 Pershore, Worcester, England1891 Cen. Living 366 New John St, St Georges parish, Birmingham with second wife; children of first wife Charlotte Louisa & James William - caster; children of second wife Albert, Fanny Florence, Ernest, Percival, Alfred Leonard & Ethel; also two domestic servants. James Dempster’s occupation: Licensed Victualler public house
email from Mike Short - details from marriage cert.
register office, Birmingham SH3.1A.7BS Fanny Elizabeth SUTTON b. 1855/6 Birmingham, daughter of William SUTTON, tool manufacturer, witnesses: Charlotte Louisa SHORT (eldest child of James by first marriage) & William SUTTON. Fanny’s address at marriage: 107 New John Street, Birmingham.email from Mike Short
occupation tool maker awl blades
email Mike SHort 8.4.2006
1851 Cen. living at 12c Francis Street, Aston with parents1861 Cen. Living 71 Princip Street, Birmingham St George with parents
m. Mar Q 1869 Birmingham, SH3.11.3S Benjamin WILLIAMS b 1849/50 Birmingham
1871 Cen. Living Abbott Road, Woolwich St Mary, Essex with husband; children Louisa J & Susan C. Benjamin’s occupation: wire drawer1881 Cen. Living, Back 18 Cuthbert Road, Birmingham with husband; children Louisa J, Susan C, Thomas, Alice, Samuel, Albert & Benjamin. Husband’s occupation: wire drawer
1891 Cen. Living 118 Winson Street, Rotton Park, Birmingham St Cuthberts with husband; children Louisa J - Warehouse Girl, Thomas - Iron Corrugator, Alice - Warehouse Girl, Samuel - Machinist, Albert, Benjamin, Ada, Leah, Edward & Rose
1901 Cen. Living at 146 Waterloo Road, Smethwick, Worcestershire with husband; children Samuel - ….Labourer with his wife Ellen & their daughter Ade E WILLIAMS; children Benjamin - ….Metal Worker, Leah - Screw Worker & Edward - Errand boy. Note that children Ada and Rose are not present and may have died.
email from Mike Short 8.4.2006
1871 Cen. Living Abbott Road, Woolwich St Mary, Essex with parents 1881 Cen. Living, Back 18 Cuthbert Road, Birmingham with parents
1891 Cen. Living 118 Winson Street, Rotton Park, Birmingham St Cuthberts with parents. Occupation - Warehouse Girl
email from Mike Short 8.4.2006
1871 Cen. Living Abbott Road, Woolwich St Mary, Essex with parents
1881 Cen. Living, Back 18 Cuthbert Road, Birmingham with parents
email from Mike Short 8.4.2006
1881 Cen. Living, Back 18 Cuthbert Road, Birmingham with parents
1891 Cen. Living 118 Winson Street, Rotton Park, Birmingham St Cuthberts with parents. Occupation - Iron Corrugator
email from Mike Short 8.4.2006
1881 Cen. Living, Back 18 Cuthbert Road, Birmingham with parents
1891 Cen. Living 118 Winson Street, Rotton Park, Birmingham St Cuthberts with parents. Occupation - Warehouse Girl
email from Mike Short 8.4.2006
1881 Cen. Living, Back 18 Cuthbert Road, Birmingham with parents
1891 Cen. Living 118 Winson Street, Rotton Park, Birmingham St Cuthberts with parents.
email from Mike Short 8.4.2006
1891 Cen. Living 118 Winson Street, Rotton Park, Birmingham St Cuthberts with parents.
1901 Cen. Living at 146 Waterloo Road, Smethwick, Worcestershire with parents. Occupation: Metal Worker
KF 30.4.2006 only possible BMD death as must have been born bet. 1881 & 1891
Deaths Dec 1892 Williams Ada 9 Birmingham 6d 5email from Mike Short 8.4.2006
1891 Cen. Living 118 Winson Street, Rotton Park, Birmingham St Cuthberts with parents.
1901 Cen. No trace
email from Mike Short 8.4.2006
1891 Cen. Living 118 Winson Street, Rotton Park, Birmingham St Cuthberts with parents.
1901 Cen. Living at 146 Waterloo Road, Smethwick, Worcestershire with parents. Occupation: Screw Worker
email from Mike Short 8.4.2006
1891 Cen. Living 118 Winson Street, Rotton Park, Birmingham St Cuthberts with parents.
1901 Cen. Living at 146 Waterloo Road, Smethwick, Worcestershire with parents. Occupation: Errand Boy
email from Mike Short 8.4.2006
1891 Cen. Living 118 Winson Street, Rotton Park, Birmingham St Cuthberts with parents.
1901 Cen. Living at 146 Waterloo Road, Smethwick, Worcestershire with parents
Possibly related to Mary Ann MARSHALL who m. William SHORT grandfather of James Dempster SHORT?
email from Virginia Stokes 28/12/2004 gave middle name
b March Qtr 1838 Aston Vol 16 Pg 173 (probable)
Emma first appears in records m the 1841 census for Price Street in the district of St. Mary's. This census was taken in June 1841. I found this entry on 1841, Birmingham 4+, HO 107/1143 for House 2, Court 15, Price St. (Price Street seems to have run between Loveday St. and Lancaster Street more or less where St. Chad's Ringway now runs at the back of the Dental Hospital. St.Mary's Church was built as an annexe of St. Martin's from l779 onwards: elegant Georgian terraces once surrounded it. It became a Parish C'hurch in the 1830s but fell into decline and was eventually demolished. Price Street did not contain elegant Georgian houses but rather the smelly, insanitary courts ol back-to-back houses inhabited by the working classes of old Birmingham. In 1835 Price Street was on the northernmost edge of Birmingham.
1841, court 15, House 2. Price St.
William SHORT (Head), aged 40, Iron Caster, born Warwickshire
Mary Ann SHORT(Wife), aged 40 born outside the county.
Eliza SHORT (daughter), aged 15, born Warwickshire
Thomas SHORT (son), aged 15, born Warwickshire,
William SHORT(son), aged 10, born Warwickshire
Mary SHORT (daughter), aged 10, born Warwickshire
Emma SHORT (daughter), aged 6, born Warwickshire
James SHORT(son), aged 3, born Warwickshire
John SHORT (son), aged 1, born WarwickshireThis census was taken in April of 1851.
Census Ref. Aston, Duddeston. 2061.714/26
Bloomsbury St. (no number given)
Head, William SHORT, aged 50, Iron Cutter, born Birmingham Warwickshire
Wife, Mary SHORT, aged 52, born Scotland
Son, James SHORT, aged 13, Iron Cutter, born Birmingham, Warwickshire
Son, John, aged 11, Scholar, born Birmingham Warwickshire.1861 Cen. Living Back of 174 Great Lister Street, Duddeston & Nechells, Aston, Birmingham with wife; children Charlotte Louisa & James William. James’s occupation: Iron caster
1871 Cen. Living Back of 174 Great Lister Street, Duddeston cum Nechells, Aston, Birmingham, with children Charlotte, James Dempster & Mary Ann; also present visitor Eliza CALLAGHAN aged 24 occupation: gunstock ……
Mount Pleasant, Aston, Warwick, England
PRO Ref RG11 Piece/Folio 3048/93 Page 12
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
James D. SHORT Head M Male 43 Aston, Warwick, England Iron Founder
Fanney E. SHORT Wife M Female 26 Bham, Warwick, England
Charlotte L. SHORT Daughter Female 22 Bham, Warwick, England
James W. SHORT Son Male 20 Bham, Warwick, England Iron Caster
Mary A. SHORT Daughter Female 18 Bham, Warwick, England Pupil Teacher
Albert SHORT Son Male 3 Stechford, Warwick, England
Florrie SHORT Daughter Female 2 Washwood Heath, Warwick, England
Earnest D. SHORT Son Male 3 m Washwood Heath, Warwick, England
Jennie NICHOLAS Visitor Female 21 Pershore, Worcester, England1891 Cen. Living 366 New John St, St Georges parish, Birmingham with second wife; children of first wife Charlotte Louisa & James William - caster; children of second wife Albert, Fanny Florence, Ernest, Percival, Alfred Leonard & Ethel; also two domestic servants. James Dempster’s occupation: Licensed Victualler public house
1901 Cen. Living Aston Tavern, 10 Aston Road, Aston Manor with wife; child by first wife Charlotte Louisa - barmaid; children by second marriage Albert - musician, Fanny Florence - barmaid, Ernest Dempster - Clerk ?Brewery?, Percival - railway clerk, Ethel, Harold, Victor James & Howard; also present servant-nursemaid aged 12
Post 1901, after the death of James Dempster SHORT, Fanny Elizabeth SUTTON remarried Sep Q 1909 6d 147 Joseph CARTER. Fanny known to kept ‘The Horse & Jockey’ public house and later ‘The Cup’, both in Sutton Coldfield.
Fanny Elizabeth SUTTON has been described by SHORT descendants as a larger than life character who liked rich men and wore lots of gold and jewellery. She was known for throwing her house open on Sundays to the whole family and expected all the children and grandchildren for Sunday dinner. Her houses were much bigger than most with better facilities and the grandchildren were expected to have their weekly bath at her house. There have been at least three reports from her grandchildren, and their cousins too, who remembered regularly playing at the house and having a really good time.
Post 1901, after the death of James Dempster SHORT, Fanny Elizabeth SUTTON remarried Sep Q 1909 6d 147 Joseph CARTER. Fanny known to kept ‘The Horse & Jockey’ public house and later ‘The Cup’, both in Sutton Coldfield.
1861 Cen. Birmingham St George, with parents at 107 ?King? John Street,
KF 1881 census
Mount Pleasant, Aston, Warwick, England
PRO Ref RG11 Piece/Folio 3048/93 Page 12
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
James D. SHORT Head M Male 43 Aston, Warwick, England Iron Founder
Fanney E. SHORT Wife M Female 26 Bham, Warwick, England
Charlotte L. SHORT Daughter Female 22 Bham, Warwick, England
James W. SHORT Son Male 20 Bham, Warwick, England Iron Caster
Mary A. SHORT Daughter Female 18 Bham, Warwick, England Pupil Teacher
Albert SHORT Son Male 3 Stechford, Warwick, England
Florrie SHORT Daughter Female 2 Washwood Heath, Warwick, England
Earnest D. SHORT Son Male 3 m Washwood Heath, Warwick, England
Jennie NICHOLAS Visitor Female 21 Pershore, Worcester, England1891 Cen. Living 366 New John St, St Georges parish, Birmingham with second wife; children of first wife Charlotte Louisa & James William - caster; children of second wife Albert, Fanny Florence, Ernest, Percival, Alfred Leonard & Ethel; also two domestic servants. James Dempster’s occupation: Licensed Victualler public house
1901 Cen. Living Aston Tavern, 10 Aston Road, Aston Manor with wife; child by first wife Charlotte Louisa - barmaid; children by second marriage Albert - musician, Fanny Florence - barmaid, Ernest Dempster - Clerk ?Brewery?, Percival - railway clerk, Ethel, Harold, Victor James & Howard; also present servant-nursemaid aged 12
Fanny was known to kept ‘The Horse & Jockey’ public house and later ‘The Cup’, both in Sutton Coldfield but I am not sure whether these two pubs were kept during, or after, the lifetime of husband James
census
1861 Cen. Living Back of 174 Great Lister Street, Duddeston & Nechells, Aston, Birmingham with parents
1871 Cen. Living Back of 174 Great Lister Street, Duddeston & Nechells, Aston, Birmingham, with widowed fatherKF's 1881 census details
Mount Pleasant, Aston, Warwick, England
PRO Ref RG11 Piece/Folio 3048/93 Page 12
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
James D. SHORT Head M Male 43 Aston, Warwick, England Iron Founder
Fanney E. SHORT Wife M Female 26 Bham, Warwick, England
Charlotte L. SHORT Daughter Female 22 Bham, Warwick, England
James W. SHORT Son Male 20 Bham, Warwick, England Iron Caster
Mary A. SHORT Daughter Female 18 Bham, Warwick, England Pupil Teacher
Albert SHORT Son Male 3 Stechford, Warwick, England
Florrie SHORT Daughter Female 2 Washwood Heath, Warwick, England
Earnest D. SHORT Son Male 3 m Washwood Heath, Warwick, England
Jennie NICHOLAS Visitor Female 21 Pershore, Worcester, England1891 Cen. Living 366 New John St, St Georges parish, Birmingham with second wife; children of first wife Charlotte Louisa & James William - caster; children of second wife Albert, Fanny Florence, Ernest, Percival, Alfred Leonard & Ethel; also two domestic servants. James Dempster’s occupation: Licensed Victualler public house
1901 Cen. Living Aston Tavern, 10 Aston Road, Aston Manor with wife; child by first wife Charlotte Louisa - barmaid; children by second marriage Albert - musician, Fanny Florence - barmaid, Ernest Dempster - Clerk ?Brewery?, Percival - railway clerk, Ethel, Harold, Victor James & Howard; also present servant-nursemaid aged 12
1861 Cen. Living Back of 174 Great Lister Street, Duddeston & Nechells, Aston, Birmingham with parents
1871 Cen. . Living Back of 174 Great Lister Street, Duddeston & Nechells, Aston, Birmingham, with widowed father.KF's 1881 census details
Mount Pleasant, Aston, Warwick, England
PRO Ref RG11 Piece/Folio 3048/93 Page 12
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
James D. SHORT Head M Male 43 Aston, Warwick, England Iron Founder
Fanney E. SHORT Wife M Female 26 Bham, Warwick, England
Charlotte L. SHORT Daughter Female 22 Bham, Warwick, England
James W. SHORT Son Male 20 Bham, Warwick, England Iron Caster
Mary A. SHORT Daughter Female 18 Bham, Warwick, England Pupil Teacher
Albert SHORT Son Male 3 Stechford, Warwick, England
Florrie SHORT Daughter Female 2 Washwood Heath, Warwick, England
Earnest D. SHORT Son Male 3 m Washwood Heath, Warwick, England
Jennie NICHOLAS Visitor Female 21 Pershore, Worcester, England1891 Cen. Living 366 New John St, St Georges parish, Birmingham with second wife; children of first wife Charlotte Louisa & James William - caster; children of second wife Albert, Fanny Florence, Ernest, Percival, Alfred Leonard & Ethel; also two domestic servants. James Dempster’s occupation: Licensed Victualler public house
KF's 1881 census details
Mount Pleasant, Aston, Warwick, England
PRO Ref RG11 Piece/Folio 3048/93 Page 12
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
James D. SHORT Head M Male 43 Aston, Warwick, England Iron Founder
Fanney E. SHORT Wife M Female 26 Bham, Warwick, England
Charlotte L. SHORT Daughter Female 22 Bham, Warwick, England
James W. SHORT Son Male 20 Bham, Warwick, England Iron Caster
Mary A. SHORT Daughter Female 18 Bham, Warwick, England Pupil Teacher
Albert SHORT Son Male 3 Stechford, Warwick, England
Florrie SHORT Daughter Female 2 Washwood Heath, Warwick, England
Earnest D. SHORT Son Male 3 m Washwood Heath, Warwick, England
Jennie NICHOLAS Visitor Female 21 Pershore, Worcester, England1891 Cen. Living 366 New John St, St Georges parish, Birmingham with second wife; children of first wife Charlotte Louisa & James William - caster; children of second wife Albert, Fanny Florence, Ernest, Percival, Alfred Leonard & Ethel; also two domestic servants. James Dempster’s occupation: Licensed Victualler public house
1901 Cen. Living Aston Tavern, 10 Aston Road, Aston Manor with wife; child by first wife Charlotte Louisa - barmaid; children by second marriage Albert - musician, Fanny Florence - barmaid, Ernest Dempster - Clerk ?Brewery?, Percival - railway clerk, Ethel, Harold, Victor James & Howard; also present servant-nursemaid aged 12
Known by the family to have been a brilliant violinist, went to London for lessons, became ‘leader of the Dan Godfrey’ Orchestra. Shot in the arm during Army service, ending his musical career. It is not known when the injury occurred.
Sir Dan Godfrey was the leader of the Bournemouth Municipal Orchestra in the early part of the twentieth century. There is another Dan Godfrey. Dan Godfrey Junior, in 1922, founded the 2ZY Orchestra, the orchestra of Manchester’s first radio station, later to become the Northern Wireless Orchestra to 1931, then, in reduced form, the 9 piece Northern Studio Orchestra from 1932. These orchestras were the ancestors of the BBC National Orchestra and, from 1982, the BBC Philharmonic Orchestra.
Enquiries have been made of the Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra (successor to the BMO) and it is hoped to report more. An undated early photograph of the BMO does show a youthful looking leader so I remain hopeful.
email from Mike Short
nicknamed "snowball" because of his white hair1901 Cen. Living Aston Tavern, 10 Aston Road, Aston Manor with wife; child by first wife Charlotte Louisa - barmaid; children by second marriage Albert - musician, Fanny Florence - barmaid, Ernest Dempster - Clerk ?Brewery?, Percival - railway clerk, Ethel, Harold, Victor James & Howard; also present servant-nursemaid aged 12
Believed by descendants of brother Ernest Dempster to have been killed WW1 but no positive trace on WGC. Recently, a SHORT descendant has suggested that he was a prisoner of war.
KF lookups
Entry from the CWGC
19 SHORT, H R Lance Corporal 8524 11/11/1914 Unknown Scots Guards United Kingdom Panel 11. YPRES (MENIN GATE) MEMORIAL
Also mentioned on the Sutton Coldfield War Memorial outside the Town Hall.There is one entry from the Online archives referring to a Harold Reginald SHORT
Description
Medal card of Short, Harold Reginald
Corps Regiment No Rank
Scots Guards 8524 Lance Corporal
Scots Guards 8524 Private
Date 1914-1920
Catalogue reference WO 372/18links to the Catalogue
Dept Records created or inherited by the War Office, Armed Forces, Judge Advocate General, and related bodies
Series War Office: Service Medal and Award Rolls Index, First World War
Piece Shadbolt E - Spratt C
Image contains 1 medal card of many for this collection
Number of image files: 1
55297 / 16399 PDF 1.2 1 302 1 3.50Cemetery: YPRES (MENIN GATE) MEMORIAL
Country : Belgium
Locality: Ieper, West-VlaanderenVisiting Information:
Panel Numbers quoted at the end of each entry relate to the panels dedicated to the Regiment served with. In some instances where a casualty is recorded as attached to another Regiment, his name may alternatively appear within their Regimental Panels. Please refer to the on-site Memorial Register Introduction to determine the alternative panel numbers if you do not find the name within the quoted Panels. The design of this site makes access to certain parts of the memorial impossible by wheelchair. For further information regarding wheelchair access, please contact our Enquiries Section on telephone number 01628 507200.Location Information:
Ypres (now Ieper) is a town in the Province of West Flanders. The Memorial is situated at the eastern side of the town on the road to Menin (Menen) and Courtrai (Kortrijk). Each night at 8 pm the traffic is stopped at the Menin Gate while members of the local Fire Brigade sound the Last Post in the roadway under the Memorial's arches.Historical Information:
The Menin Gate is one of four memorials to the missing in Belgian Flanders which cover the area known as the Ypres Salient. Broadly speaking, the Salient stretched from Langemarck in the north to the northern edge in Ploegsteert Wood in the south, but it varied in area and shape throughout the war. The Salient was formed during the First Battle of Ypres in October and November 1914, when a small British Expeditionary Force succeeded in securing the town before the onset of winter, pushing the German forces back to the Passchendaele Ridge. The Second Battle of Ypres began in April 1915 when the Germans released poison gas into the Allied lines north of Ypres. This was the first time gas had been used by either side and the violence of the attack forced an Allied withdrawal and a shortening of the line of defence. There was little more significant activity on this front until 1917, when in the Third Battle of Ypres an offensive was mounted by Commonwealth forces to divert German attention from a weakened French front further south. The initial attempt in June to dislodge the Germans from the Messines Ridge was a complete success, but the main assault north-eastward, which began at the end of July, quickly became a dogged struggle against determined opposition and the rapidly deteriorating weather. The campaign finally came to a close in November with the capture of Passchendaele. The German offensive of March 1918 met with some initial success, but was eventually checked and repulsed in a combined effort by the Allies in September. The battles of the Ypres Salient claimed many lives on both sides and it quickly became clear that the commemoration of members of the Commonwealth forces with no known grave would have to be divided between several different sites. The site of the Menin Gate was chosen because of the hundreds of thousands of men who passed through it on their way to the battlefields. It commemorates those of all Commonwealth nations (except New Zealand) who died in the Salient, in the case of United Kingdom casualties before 16 August 1917. Those United Kingdom and New Zealand servicemen who died after that date are named on the memorial at Tyne Cot, a site which marks the furthest point reached by Commonwealth forces in Belgium until nearly the end of the war. Other New Zealand casualties are commemorated on memorials at Buttes New British Cemetery and Messines Ridge British Cemetery. The YPRES (MENIN GATE) MEMORIAL now bears the names of more than 54,000 officers and men whose graves are not known. The memorial, designed by Sir Reginald Blomfield with sculpture by Sir William Reid-Dick, was unveiled by Lord Plumer in July 1927.No. of Identified Casualties:
54344
1901 Cen. Living Aston Tavern, 10 Aston Road, Aston Manor with wife; child by first wife Charlotte Louisa - barmaid; children by second marriage Albert - musician, Fanny Florence - barmaid, Ernest Dempster - Clerk ?Brewery?, Percival - railway clerk, Ethel, Harold, Victor James & Howard; also present servant-nursemaid aged 12
Believed by descendants of brother Ernest Dempster to have been killed when the 4 year old Victor James swung off the billiard room curtains of the Public House in which he was living (presumably the Aston Tavern) and dragged them into the fire. He was burnt to death. Recently, it has been suggested by a SHORT descendant that he fell through a window and died from his injuries.
email Mike Short 8.4.2006
1851 Cen. living at 12c Francis Street, Aston with parents1861 Cen. Living 71 Princip Street, Birmingham St George with parents
m(1) SH3.11.1AS Mary, b. 1848 Birmingham1871 Cen. Living 30 Warwick Street, Woolwich, Kent with wife Mary and their children, Louisa, James and Thomas. Occupation: Wire drawer
betw. 1877-80 moved back to B’ham
1881 Cen. Living at 4 Edith Rd., Winson Green Road, Birmingham with second wife Caroline; children James & Thomas by first marriage; children Annie, Caroline, Minnie & Jane by second marriage. Occupation: Iron Wire Drawer
bef. 1888/9 moved to Ulverston, Cumberland and then to Manchester bef. 1891
1891 Cen. Living at 63 Cross Street, Bradford, Christchurch, Manchester with wife; children by second marriage, Caroline - occ. Weaver, Minnie, Jane, Samuel, Harry & John Charles. Occupation: Wire drawer. Gap of at least six years betw. b. of Samuel & Harry suggests more children who did not survive.
betw. 1891 and 1892 moved to Warrington
1901 Cen. At 122 Battersby Road, Warrington with wife; child from first m. Thomas - Moulders core maker, unmarried; children by second marriage Ann - domestic nurse, Jane - machinist shirts, Harry - Barber’s Lather Boy, Albert, Robert, Frank & Harold
email from Mike Short 8.4.2006
1871 Cen. Living 30 Warwick Street, Woolwich, Kent with parents
1881 Cen. Possibly Gen Domestic Servant at 16 Winson Green Road, Birmingham All Saints
email from Mike Short 8.4.2006
1871 Cen. Living 30 Warwick Street, Woolwich, Kent with parents
1881 Cen. Living at 4 Edith Rd., Winson Green Road, Birmingham with father & stepmother
email from Mike Short 8.4.2006
1871 Cen. Living 30 Warwick Street, Woolwich, Kent with parents
1881 Cen. Living at 4 Edith Rd., Winson Green Road, Birmingham with father & stepmother
1901 Cen. At 122 Battersby Road, Warrington with father & stepmother. Occupation: Moulder’s Core maker. Unmarried
email Mike Short 8.4.2006
1881 Cen. Living at 4 Edith Rd., Winson Green Road, Birmingham with parents
Not traced further
email Mike Short 8.4.2006
1881 Cen. Living at 4 Edith Rd., Winson Green Road, Birmingham with parents
1891 Cen. Living at 63 Cross Street, Bradford, Christchurch, Manchester with parents. Occupation: Weaver
1901 Cen. At 122 Battersby Road, Warrington with parents. Occupation: Domestic Nurse
email Mike Short 8.4.2006
1881 Cen. Living at 4 Edith Rd., Winson Green Road, Birmingham with parents
1891 Cen. Living at 63 Cross Street, Bradford, Christchurch, Manchester with parents
1901 Cen. At 122 Battersby Road, Warrington with parents. Occupation: Machinist, shirts
email Mike Short 8.4.2006
1891 Cen. Living at 63 Cross Street, Bradford, Christchurch, Manchester with parents
email from Mike Short 8.4.2006
1891 Cen. Living at 63 Cross Street, Bradford, Christchurch, Manchester with parents
1901 Cen. At 122 Battersby Road, Warrington with parents. Occupation Barber’s Lather Boy
email from Mike Short 8.4.2006
1891 Cen. Living at 63 Cross Street, Bradford, Christchurch, Manchester with parents
Note: not with parents on 1901 Cen.
email from Mike Short 8.4.2006
1901 Cen. At 122 Battersby Road, Warrington with parents.
email from Mike Short 8.4.2006
1901 Cen. At 122 Battersby Road, Warrington with parents.
email from Mike Short 8.4.2006
1901 Cen. At 122 Battersby Road, Warrington with parents.